What Would Jesus Make of “Passion” (Conferences)? Guest Blog by Austin Fischer

A repost from Roger’s Blog January 9, 2013: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/01/what-would-jesus-make-of-passion-conferences-guest-blog-by-austin-fischer

What Would Jesus Make of Passion? by Austin Fischer (Teaching Pastor, The Vista Community Church, Belton/Temple, Texas)

 Hooray Excellence!

 At the moment I’m writing this, there are 60,000 college students gathered inside the Georgia Dome in Atlanta. They are singing worship songs, listening to sermons, and gathering what will no doubt be a massive offering that will go towards combating human trafficking. It’s pretty unbelievable stuff, but the Passion conferences specialize in the unbelievable.

Cutting edge media, excellent musicians, famous speakers. If we’re going to be candid, it’s refreshing to see something “Christian” also be something of such exceptional quality. You could invite an agnostic friend to it and not blush at the prospects of asking him to pay a couple hundred bucks to attend something that feels like a home-school prom. I like excellence, you like excellence, we all like excellence, and I think Jesus does too. Hooray excellence!

That said, as I was reading the tweets of a number of my students who are at Passion, a question kept bouncing around inside my head. Maybe I was asking it of God or maybe God was asking it of me—I often can’t tell the difference. But either way, the question was, “What would Jesus make of Passion?”

Now I know, I know. The question is both loaded and brutally anachronistic, but it just kept asking itself to me. Spoiler alert: I have no idea what Jesus would make of Passion. But here’s some stuff I threw up against the wall. Maybe some of it sticks.

Thought #1…Temple = Georgia Dome

I remember the first time I went to a Passion conference. I was a senior in high school and together with my youth pastor and a few friends, we made the trek to Sherman, Texas. And from the beginning, the trip had a certain vibe to it, a vibe I’ve since learned is the anticipation of pilgrimage.

Religious pilgrimages—as far as I can tell—stretch back to the beginning of human history. There’s something primeval and elemental about the act of going on a journey to a place where we believe we will encounter something transcendent. In the Hebrew Bible, we see God commanding the Jews to make yearly pilgrimages to “appear before the Lord God” (Exodus 34:18-23). Once the Temple was built, these pilgrimages would culminate there, the place where heaven and earth came together. Indeed for a Jew, the Temple was the holiest place in the whole universe. They traveled there because God was uniquely there.

And by way of crude parallelism, it would appear that what the Temple was for an ancient Jew, the Georgia Dome is now for many young-adult, American evangelicals. They take a yearly pilgrimage to the Dome because they feel it is a place where God is uniquely present.

“Cleansing” the Temple?

So what do we make of this? The first thing that came to my mind was Matthew 21 and Jesus’ “cleansing” of the Temple. I put cleansing in quotations because contra popular belief, NT scholars point out that Jesus is not cleansing the Temple so much as he is shutting it down. Flipping over the tables of the money-changers and seats of the dove-sellers (21:12)—these are not acts of purification but condemnation. The exchanging of pagan coins for Jewish coins and the selling of animals for sacrifice were both essential for Temple worship. The Temple didn’t need rehabilitation. It needed to die.

But not because God hates buildings; rather, the Temple needed to die because Jesus was replacing it. Jesus was a one-man, walking Temple; the place where heaven and earth came together and God was uniquely present to his people. As N.T. Wright says, “What the gospels offer us is a God who is in the midst [of us] in and as Jesus the Messiah…Jesus himself is the new Temple at the heart of the new creation…And so this Temple, like the wilderness tabernacle, is a temple on the move, as Jesus’ people go out, in the energy of the Spirit, to be the dwelling of God…”[1]

Now from one angle it’s tempting to connect these dots. Jesus shut down the Temple because he was replacing it. The Georgia Dome has become a new Temple. Jesus would walk into the Georgia Dome and flip over the merch tables and slam Chris Tomlin’s guitar, Garth Brooks style. And while that sort of simplistic reasoning certainly won’t do, I do think it raises some interesting questions regarding the pilgrimage/Temple mentality that so clearly permeates the Passion ethos. So here go a few thoughts…

(c)hurch

Jesus didn’t shut down the Temple because it was evil. He shut it down because it was obsolete and no longer needed. God was doing a new thing, was making himself present to his world and his people in a new way, and the Temple didn’t have a place in this new creation. God was now present to his people through the Spirit and was present to the whole world through his Spirit-filled community = the church. And I put church in lower case on purpose. Local churches made up of normal people doing normal things…this is the God-appointed medium of God’s presence and grace to the world. Not a Temple. Not a yearly pilgrimage. And dare I say, not a trip to the Georgia Dome.

To be sure, many Passion attendees love their local church and their pilgrimage to the Dome is a noble period of spiritual refreshment. But I don’t mind going out on a limb and suggesting that for a great many attendees—perhaps the majority—Passion is the most spiritual moment of the year. It is the standard by which all other spiritual moments will be judged. They’ll have to wait a year to feel this close to God again because it’ll be a year before they’re back here, singing the resounding chorus to an awesome song, having just listened to a sermon from their favorite celebrity pastor, all while their eyes are dazzled by the glitz and glamour of it all. It will be a chore to wade through the ordinariness of actual church life for another year.

As I once told a college student, if Passion is the most spiritual moment of your year, a.) I feel bad for you…b.) you’re not going to be able to love and serve your actual church.

And that’s because your actual church actually has to be the church. It has to deal with crying babies, botched song transitions, average sermons by not-famous people, and a budget for the year that is half that for 4 days of Passion. It’ll never measure up and so you’ll probably bail and look for a church that will feed your Passion addiction (if only Passion could be a church…or wait…it is ;) or you’ll stay and complain and never put down any real roots.

I inhabit and am thus aware of a rather small sliver of reality that I know as my life, and speaking from here, this is not hypothetical. I work with college students, I watch it happen, and I deal with the aforementioned phenomena. For the longest time, I didn’t quite know what to call it and I still don’t. But I know it involves a skewed understanding of the spiritual life in which a streamlined, hyper-spiritualized gathering has replaced the gritty reality of incarnation, of learning to be a human, among other humans, through whom God is reconciling the world to himself. It invigorates the spiritual life to be sure, but it does so by immersing them in something that just doesn’t seem to bear much resemblance to the real world.

And so as ironic as it may sound, maybe what Passion is doing is not progressive or ground-breaking so much as it is, well, antiquated. That’s hyperbolic to be sure but maybe, just maybe, Passion needs to make sure it doesn’t build something that Jesus already tore down. And I really hope it doesn’t build it on top of the church.

Thought #2…Going Vegan in a Steakhouse

Maybe you don’t buy the “Passion or church” thought above. Maybe you think you can have your cake and eat it too. I’m not so convinced most people can, but moving on, thought #2 is something I hope we can all agree on, even though it is uncomfortable.

So I’m told that at the beginning of this year’s Passion conference, Louie Giglio got up, surveyed the energy and buzz of 60,000 students packed into the Dome and said, “Is this not incredible?” He went on to talk about how Passion has become a global movement, impacting millions of lives and followed that up by telling the story of a student who had been addicted to drugs, but as a result of last year’s conference is a year clean. Louie then said, “The testimony of these days in the Dome will be, ‘I know that He is the Lord,’ and ‘I know He can do immeasurably more because He did it in my life,’ and ‘I don’t need an event, I don’t need a Dome, I need Jesus’.”

“I don’t need an event. I don’t need a Dome. I need Jesus.” Amen! See, Louie and company know it’s about Jesus and not an event. But let’s allow ourselves to sit with the irony for a moment. Louie stands before a crowd of 60,000 people, in the Georgia Dome, talking about how this is a global movement, telling a story about how this event helped a guy be sober for a year…and he says, “I don’t need an event, I don’t need a Dome…” But Louie, you’re in the Dome, at an event, hyping the event. We hear you saying something about not needing a Dome, but it’s hard for us to take you seriously when your face is being projected on that 5-story tall LED screen suspended in the middle of the Dome.

Perhaps it’s something like taking a group of people to the best steakhouse in town, providing them with a buffet of the finest cuts available, all the while telling them that eating meat is wrong and we should all go vegan. You can talk to people about the virtues of going vegan all day long, but as long as you’re feeding them steak, I doubt they’re really listening to you. And perhaps even more importantly, I question whether you really want them to listen to you.

Means = Message

There is a more technical way to say all of this: your means is your message. When delivering a message, our words are not the only things that communicate. Everything communicates, and in particular, the “way you do things” communicates, perhaps the loudest. I’ll borrow an example from an excellent book.

Kent Carlson and Mike Lueken were the pastors at one of those suburban, fast-growing, soon to be mega-churches. Fearing they were bordering on becoming a “seeker-sensitive” church, they started really emphasizing discipleship from the pulpit. But they noticed it wasn’t changing the culture of their church. It was still trending towards consumerism and impotent discipleship. What was the problem? In their own words, “We couldn’t merely change the words we used to communicate the gospel because there were too many other messages ingrained in the Oak Hills culture that would contradict our words.”[2]

In other words, you want to make sure you’re creating disciples and not voyeuristic consumers? Then you’re going to need more than words spoken in a context that contradicts everything you’re saying. It’s naïve to think we can hook people with a massive, consumer experience, and then not expect them to act like consumers. As Carlson and Lueken say, “Our attractional methods are not neutral. We are training people as we attract them.”[3]

Some Conclusions

So what would Jesus make of Passion? I don’t know. I think he’d enjoy hearing 60,000 people singing to him. I think he’d love a massive offering taken up to combat human trafficking. I think he’d rejoice in the refreshment and repentance taking place. And as mentioned earlier, I think he’d enjoy the excellence of it all. These are—in and of themselves—indisputably good things. But I’m not sure what he would think about the new Temple we’ve constructed, the celeb-pastor cults, or the Passion fever. But deconstruction is easy, so how about a little reconstruction.

I suggest this: Do some massive downsizing for Passion next year. Minimal media, no celeb-pastors or musicians. Get people who are good, just not famous…they’ll cost less. Maybe just leave the regular lights on. Maybe you could charge $50 instead of $200. By my calculations, that’s somewhere around $10 million dollars you’ll save the attendees. Then, challenge everyone who attends to put that $150 they saved at Passion towards their local church’s budget. Or if they really hate their local church and don’t believe in it enough to give $150, then give it to Compassion, International Justice Mission, etc. And then maybe Louie could stand up in the Dome in front of 60,000 people and say, “I don’t need a dome, I don’t need an event, I just need Jesus”, and we’d actually be able to hear him.

And one more thing. We Christians do have an unfortunate tendency to be cynical towards things that are doing well—especially when it’s not “our” thing. Whatever the psychology behind it, it’s all too easy to be swept away by some latent notion that if it’s Christian and successful/excellent than there must be something wrong with it. The success and excellence of Passion should be something we rejoice in. But success and excellence—from a truly kingdom perspective—are things only achieved through ruthless self-evaluation and continual repentance. Like most things, I don’t think the Passion conferences are all black or all white. Like most of us, they do some good things and bad things. So here’s to exposing the hype and nourishing the good.

 

 


[1] N.T. Wright, How God Became King, 239.

[2] Carlson and Lueken, Renovation of the Church, 57.

[3] Ibid., 67.

Anabaptists – It’s About Jesus His Kingdom Not Babylon

There was an article in Mennonite World Review where a Democratic and Mennonite staffer was wondering basically why mennonites/anabaptists are not all in the tank for Obama with him.  While I prefer to not to be in the tank for either party here was my response to perhaps broaden his view of anabaptists (here is his letter:http://www.mennoworld.org/blog/2012/8/23/republicans-and-mennonite-vote/  ).

My response:

I think you oversimplify “mennonite”. In our church we have Rs and Ds and bunch of us fed up with it all.

Remember that de-centering power is also a HUGE Anabaptist value. So one of the struggles with the Ds and many Rs is that they are all about centralizing power in the name of often so called “goods” and “justice” but yet the answer is always new centralization, control and concentration of power.

Jesus taught as well that his kingdom is not of this world and in the NT we see all kingdoms of the world ultimately under the control of the powers and principalities. Yes used by God but penultimate and to be cast down at the end of age.

In order to truly act against long term injustice Anabaptists push against the centralized and therefore even more corruptible, blind and unaccountable concentration of power. This makes some us very uncomfortable with the statist mentality of the new D party. There is never any “give-back” of power or reduction in government once any so-called issues only supposedly solvable by the federal government is done.

Or the issue is continually redefined to justify the continuing and increasing vise of control and destruction of civil liberties.

While many of us share what might look like a “liberal” stance on social values – it’s because we reject the control and concentration of power.

The Rs and Ds in Washington relish and seek more power. The imperial presidency mistakes of Bush have been doubled down on and erosion of civil liberties and privacy continues under Bush III – Obama.

One example is the use of drones in killing this has skyrocketed under the current admin. We could on and on. The patriot act has been strengthened under Bush III-Obama.

It is this that riles up those of us who know that more power in fewer hands – whether the power of a Government or Business – it fundamentally a set up for future and greater injustice, violence and persecution.

De-centering power was the genius of the founders of the US – they got their own sinfullness at a level the Ds and Rs of today would blush at and deny.

Jesus would not seek to grant more power to a centralized government nor big business. He would seek the freedom to continue the work of the kingdom OUTSIDE of these systems. After all they are under the dominion of the Evil One – he refused to tweak these systems – but inaugurated the church to manifest another form of power not wielded by slavery to bullets, ballots, borders, bombs or bondage to the beneficence of the loving arms of the statist and wall streetist.

There are other Anabaptist values and traditions at play. We support non-governmental relief and development and working for justice and Jesus BECAUSE in part we REJECT the government as the best answer to the problems of our day.

The church and Jesus show another power-under approach.

Simple Lifestyle by E. Morris Sider

Shel – The the BIC are one of many Anabaptist denominational/network groups around.  They have some great statements this one on simplicity speaks to me.

Simple Lifestyle by E. Morris Sider

Brethren in Christ Church of North America

Simple Lifestyle by E. Morris Sider

 

In an affluent age, why should Christians practice a simple lifestyle? Why should Christians deny themselves the relative luxury that most people in the West can have?

 

To ask these questions is to suggest the influence that our culture has on us. The advertisements by which we are bombarded insinuate that we are not truly happy, never quite fulfilled, unless we buy the latest and best products. Even the church sometimes reflects the thinking of the world: “Love Jesus and get rich” is the promise we occasionally hear from pulpits and religious communicators.

 

Other voices also deserve our attention, especially the Bible and, above all, the example of Jesus. His lifestyle was symbolized by birth in a manger. In his ministry he could claim that he had no place to lay his head. He called his disciples to leave everything and to follow him. He taught that it was difficult for a

rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. He elevated poor and humble people to positions of spiritual significance-the widow with the two mites, the lad with the loaves and fishes, the child set in the midst of the disciples.

 

Because we are Jesus’ followers, His twentyfirst-century disciples, we must translate His example into action appropriate for our lives and time. Some Christians propose to do this by composing a list of activities that do or do not conform to a Christian lifestyle. Whatever the value of such a list for the individual, on a broader level, it may imply that one’s righteousness depends on how one conforms

to the list. This is the legalism that Jesus condemned in the Pharisees.

 

We may, however, rightly talk of principles. Principles for determining a Christian lifestyle are clearly established in the Bible; they may be applied to all times and places – to the disciples and the New Testament church, as well as to Christians in our own century.

 

The following principles are among those that must be taken seriously by all who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ:

 

A simple lifestyle reflects rightness of heart and mind. If our lifestyle is to conform to God’s will, we must have a heart that is right before God, a heart that seeks first his kingdom (Matthew 6:33). With that as the attitude of heart and mind, we shall find the other aspects of life falling into proper perspective.

 

This principle does not automatically condemn persons with riches, providing their attitude toward wealth is right. On the other hand, it does reprove persons with few possessions who unduly treasure the little he or she has and covets the possessions of others.

 

For both rich and poor-the principle calls us to be sensitive to the things of the Spirit. Then we shall not be dazzled by or made covetous of the material, thus essentially superficial things of life, whether they be large houses, expensive cars, swimming pools, or even impressive church buildings.

 

A simple lifestyle places values on human dignity. Christians measure the worth of people not by the things they possess but by their being created in the image of God.

 

That is why we are all – rich and poor – equal in God’s sight. To measure worth by wealth, status, expensive possessions or other similar standards is to take away from the dignity of being created in the image of God. A simple lifestyle affirms our acceptance of that truth.

 

Lazarus, for all his begging, was a nobler person than the rich man from whom he begged (Luke 16:19-31).

 

A simple lifestyle embodies stewardship. Christians know that they receive so that they can give. Our farms, our bank accounts, our professions, indeed all we have, are not ours but God’s. To hoard our money, to exploit our land, to turn work only to our own advantage is to abuse the gift God has given us. Rather, with the Apostle Paul, Christians say that the reason for acquiring money is not to spend it lavishly on themselves but that they may have in order to share with others (Ephesians 4:28).

 

A simple lifestyle understands world need. Christians, above all others, are concerned about how their lifestyles relate to the millions of people who lack the means to live healthy, normal lives. The comfortable lifestyle of affluent people in the West is a major contributing factor to the discomfort of many people in developing countries. To make spiritual sense to such people, Christians in the West must also make economic lifestyle sense. “How can you Americans be Christian when you have so many possessions and so much wealth?” an African once asked a missionary. Centuries earlier, John asked

much the same question: “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?” (I John 3:17).

 

A simple lifestyle recognizes that our needs are minimal. We have been conditioned to want much, and our wants have a way of becoming needs. Yet, as Christians, our contentment is not in the accumulation of things, the satisfying of perceived wants, but in Jesus. Spiritual maturity for the Christian includes saying with Paul, “…I have learned to be content, whatever the circumstances” (Philipians 4:1 lb). Those words take on added meaning when we realize that Paul wrote them while in prison.

 

A simple lifestyle avoids the dangers frequently resulting from affluency. Riches are deceitful, Jesus said in the parable of the sower, because they choke out the word (Matthew 13:22). Jesus was warning us that unless we are careful, possessions have a way of affecting the soul. We may come to trust in our riches rather than in God. Our possessions may give us a false sense of power, leading us to think that we are in control of our lives when we are not. That is why Jesus, in another place, said that we cannot serve God and money at the same time (Matthew 6:24). To put our faith in material things, as one writer has said, is at best a detour on the way to the promised land.

 

A simple lifestyle values beauty and happiness. Christians may live simply but still enjoy life. Paintings on our walls, books on our shelves, music, if conforming to good taste and bought at moderate prices, are means of enriching our lives and of glorifying God. Times of feasting with family or with friends-may also be part of the joyful world of the Christian. Jesus himself feasted in the homes of the rich; he did not condemn the woman who poured expensive ointment on his feet; he undoubtedly admired the beauty of the Temple. Paul set the correct tone for us when he said, “So whether you eat or drink [if you are invited to a feast], do all for the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31).

 

John Cooper in The Joy of the Plain Life gives three guidelines (he calls them counterhabits) for putting biblical principles into practice.

 

The guidelines are not exhaustive, but they do illustrate the practical thinking that Christians should do something about the simple lifestyle:

 

1. Cultivate an attitude of aloofness toward advertising for some Christians, this may mean turning off the commercials on television and radio, cancelling subscriptions to magazines that specialize in lavish

consumer-oriented advertising, overlooking Internet ads, and avoiding the sales sections of the newspapers.

 

2. Reassess what you already own. Ask yourself whether some of the things that you now possess are really necessary. Cultivate joint ownership of equipment and tools with your neighbors.

 

3. Resist comparing yourself with those who have more than you do. The North American dream is built on “keeping up with the Joneses.” Remember that this is measuring by the wrong yardstick. Feel good about yourself even though you have fewer “nice” things than do your friends or neighbors. We are in trouble, spiritually and otherwise, when we set our eyes on what we lack and on what others have.

 

Through the centuries, spiritual renewal among groups of Christians has nearly always been accompanied by a call to a more simple lifestyle. That call comes to our own age, perhaps more forcefully than ever before, as we consider how, in an affluent age and society, we may become worthy followers of the One who was born in a manger.

Glen Leonard Boese with His Lord!

My grandfather died 5/18/2012 around 10:18PM here in Sioux Falls, SD at the Avera heart hospital surrounded by his children and grandchildren.  I had the great sorrow-filled joy of being at his bedside as his heart slowed to stop and breathing ended.  Words fail me to express the feelings to experience the death of a man who impacted so many lives.

I will share a few details of his life and what he meant to me and also edit/add/correct this post in the next few days. I know that in the presence of God he is now and that now or in the future he will also meet people who are in the kingdom because he gave selflessly.

If I had to pick two words that summarize his life they would be Jesus and justice and out of that his love for his family and all people.

He attended seminary for a while – but never became a pastor. He spent most of his life farming outside of Springfield, SD.

In the 1950s he and grandma were a part of an intentional interracial church in Chicago.  In 1958 he with two other Euro descent and two African-American brothers drove together in an early freedom ride down through the south.  They personally met Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks and the Rev. Ralph Abernathy.  He told stories of being followed, kicked out of restaurants, hotels, and harassed – however I never learned of this ride until 2010 – because it was not something that came up in regular conversation.  I did know he was a personal friend of and a supporter of Ted Blakey an African-American civil rights and political leader here in South Dakota who lived in Yankton.

As a follower of Jesus he loved on people through his farming, teaching at the high school in Springfield, SD and the University of South Dakota – Springfield before it was closed. He served in his church Friedensburg bible church in many capacities, was involved in the larger conference of his church, and also semi retired at age 55 to serve with Mennonite Mission Network and Habitat for Humanity in Ziare (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo) as a missionary for 8 1/2 years – nearly dying in the last 1/2 year due to kidney failure related to anti-Malaria drugs. (He as also VERY insistent that if he should die in Africa his body was to be left in Africa).  Then serving for several years in a school on a Hopi Native American reservation in Arizona.

He was one of the few men in my life who was not a pastor and yet modeled and lived the priesthood of all believers and took the Bible and church seriously and joyfully.  When his son Ted (Theodore) who is my biological father had divorced my mother it was him and grandma that really kept us connected with the Boese family through the following years.  He also reached out to my step father Fred once they had returned from mission service and were back in the SD area.

When visiting him he poured out grace and encouragement.  He did this with many people.  He was also ready for a good spirited theological/Biblical and political debate (he was an old-school Democrat) at the drop of a hat – to push people to really wrestle with Jesus’ teachings.

He had a favorite t-shirt in the last few years (of which I suspect he had more than one of) that said “Live simply – that other’s may simply live.”  He lived this motto – he and grandma gave to others, to missions, to world relief – of their lives and their funds.  When they built a house to retire in outside of Springfield it was built into a side of a hill, repurposed materials for much of it and highly energy efficient from passive solar and so on.

Grandpa embodied, lived out kingdom values spiritually and physically.  In fact he insisted that he be buried in a basic coffin within 24 hours and no extra funeral frills – requesting that the money saved be given to the (his mission work was part of the predecessor to what is now the) Africa Inter-Mennonite Mission http://www.aimmintl.org/

I will miss him.  But he is present with the Lord.  One day I will see him again and we will joke, debate and worship together in the presence of Jesus Christ the ruler overall.  And together we will bow before the One, the Lamb of God who gave it all – so we can give it all for Jesus.  And that will be a glorious day.

I love you grandpa and will miss you.  Talk to the Lord about your family.  Some are afar off and others will need the encouragement you can give as part of the “Cloud of Witnesses”.

Your first grandchild,

-Shelby

Precious in the sight of the LORD
is the death of his saints.
(Psalm 116:15 ESV)

 

 

Rachel Held Evans – Ask an Anabaptist…

Shel Boese / Shelby Boese  - Rachel Held Evans has been doing a “Ask a …” series.  Since we have some Anabaptist connections at Mercy and some with Mennonite background (e.g. I would consider myself a follower of Jesus in the pentecostal/evangelical/anabaptist strain – but NOT mennonite) this should be helpful for those unfamiliar with that part of our church.

http://rachelheldevans.com/ask-a-mennonite-response

Ask a Mennonite…(Kurt responds)

106 Comments

kurtThe interview series has been such a success, I’m planning to extend it through the fall! Thanks so much for bringing these interviews to life with your thoughtful and respectful questions. I don’t know about you, but I’ve really learned a lot. 

Today Kurt Willems responds to our questions about Mennonites and Anabaptism.

Kurt is writer and pastor who is preparing for church planting by finishing work towards a Master of Divinity degree at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary.   He’s a contributing writer for Red Letter Christians, and has also written for The Ooze, Emergent Village, and Sojourners. I hope you will consider subscribing to Kurt’s Pangea Blog; there’s some great stuff there. 

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From Dustin: Were you raised Mennonite? If so, did you ever go through a time where you questioned your faith and explored other options?  If you were not raised Mennonite, what caused you to consider that tradition and eventually subscribe to it?

This is a wonderful question.  Yes, I was raised “Mennonite.”  Actually, I’m part of an offshoot group called the Mennonite Brethren.  You can read about how the M.B.’s came to be here.  I can trace both sides of my family tree to the MB movement that fled persecution during the late 1800’s.  My Great Grandpa Penner boarded a ship in the dark of night to find a new home that would be hospitable to their way of life.  My Willems side of the family has similar stories.

So, yes, I was raised Mennonite, but here’s where things get interesting… I wasn’t raised Anabaptist.  Two distinctive convictions that shaped the Anabaptist (broad Mennonite tradition from the radical reformationperiod) way include: 1) nonviolence and 2) suspicion of earthly governments (nationalism).  By the time I was being reared in the church, only a slim minority actually held to these views.  Basically, I grew up in an environment that felt like straight-laced evangelicalism with a unique ethnic culture (Mennonites are known for their food and quilts).

It wasn’t until I started reading books by emerging church types that the question of nonviolence came back to my attention for serious consideration.  Prior to this, I believed that choosing peace was irrational and that just wars were necessary in a fallen world.  Then, I entered seminary (Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary[Mennonite Brethren]) and my initial questions grew legs.  And about 3 years ago, after growing up Mennonite, I embraced the Anabaptist view of theology.  This view puts Jesus in the center of how we interpret the rest of Scripture and how we understand the full revelation of God.  And within that center we take seriously the Sermon on the Mount, believing that discipleship is a radical reorientation of lifestyle.  Essentially, I grew up Mennonite Brethren but not Anabaptist.  Now, I’m authentically both.

From John: Could you give an overview of the different sub-denominations within Anabaptism? How united are Anabaptists in theology, faith, and practice?

mennonite-bretherenThe Anabaptist movement is connected in many ways.  But unlike many churches that have their roots in Christendom, we Anabaptists are “non-creedal.”  For us, the New Testament and the peace witness of the early church serve as our center.

Because of this, our movements have held many common characteristics such as – believer’s baptism, the priesthood of all believers / the church, nonviolence, interpret Paul through Jesus rather than Jesus through Paul, non-hierarchal leadership, and the kingdom of God as a counterculture – but we’ve never had any authoritative creeds to unite us.  Just shared values.

Today, many Anabaptist groups exist in North America and beyond.  All of them reflect the values listed above (at least in theory), but express them in their own way.  At one extreme you have the Amish.  I’ve never met an Amish person and they are as foreign to my experience as they might be to a Baptist or Methodist.  On the other end of the spectrum, you have some of the major denominations that are united under the umbrella of Mennonite Central Committee (our social justice / mission organization).  These denominations include: Mennonite Church USAMennonite Brethren, and Brethren in Christ.  Several other Anabaptist groups also exist, but I’m not connected to them personally.

From Rachel S.: There is such a wide variation between Mennonites in terms of theology and lifestyle. Are there major conflicts that occur within your tradition?

Conflict?  We are people of peace… we NEVER HAVE CONFLICTS :-) Next Question.

naked-anabaptistOkay, I’m being facetious here.  Certainly we have conflicts.  At the local level, theological issues continue to arise in my particular denomination.  We have many pastors who were trained in conservative evangelical seminaries and many congregants that are pro-war, etc.  This creates interesting scenarios for those of us who still hang on to our Anabaptist heritage.

Not only so, but we’ve had to wrestle with women’s issues, homosexuality, the atonement, and many of the same conflicts that other denominations are facing as well.  Not only so, but the whole “emergent” issue continues to create divisions and controversy in our movement.  Interestingly enough, those who are more Anabaptist in their theology and ethos, tend to be more open to emerging church authors and issues.  Consider this quote from Stuart Murray’s The Naked Anabaptist: “The Anabaptist movement began as a loose-knit coalition of groups who were forming in various places across central Europe – the sixteenth century equivalent of the ‘emerging church.’”
From Zeckle: I respect the Mennonites and Quakers’ stand against violence. After studying some of the teachings, I am finding myself to be more of a pacifist.  I find in my own tradition (as well as other traditions), the thought that pacifism means doing nothing, just sitting by as violence occurs. What is the Mennonite understanding of pacifism?  And how does your tradition deal with Matthew 10:34—“Don’t imagine I came to bring peace to the earth, I came to bring a sword”–which seems to be the quote against pacifism among many in my tradition?

First, pacifism is not passivism.  This might be the worst caricature that ‘just war’ Christians create when describing this perspective.  For this reason, most of us now prefer the language of nonviolent resistance.

As far as a “Mennonite understanding of pacifism,” I’m going to defer that question to a series I wrote called: Nonviolence 101.  I think that my series on this subject will address most of your questions.  I will simply add that various shades of gray exist on this complicated issue.

Finally, Matthew 10.34.  That’s always an interesting one.  The problem is that in Matthew 5 Jesus says: “But I say to you: don’t use violence to resist evil!” (Matthew 5.39, The Kingdom New Testament).   I’d begin my answer then by saying that we need to take the whole of Matthew into account when interpreting the meaning of this verse in chapter 10.  Then, we need to keep the sword passage in the context of the rest of that passage.  It clearly is speaking of the division that will take place because of Jesus.  His followers are bound to endure divisions from family, friends, culture, etc.  Not only so, but following Jesus may lead to suffering the results of non-peace… even counting the cost of discipleship by carrying their own cross and following Jesus (10.38).  Jesus knew that his mission during this age would lead to suffering, not peace.  This doesn’t negate our call to be peacemakers but amplifies how difficult this task will be.  Much more could be said about this, I recommend this commentary.
From Justin: Is there any situation, ever, in which the use of violence would be acceptable?

Not for followers of Jesus.  However, a few things need to be said.

First, the state is given the authority to use the sword to “punish evil doers” for the sake of reducing violence from running out of control (see this article).  Notice that in passages such as Romans 12-13, the assumption of Paul is that the people of God are completely distinct from the sword bearing officers.  Therefore, violence in its most reduced form is allowable by those who are part of the pagan police / military, but the assumption of the New Testament is that Christians do not participate in this practice.  On the few exceptions, see this article.

Second, Anabaptists would do well not to judge the motives of those Christians who take up arms for their country.  Although we may believe that this activity is contrary to how we understand Jesus, others disagree.  For those who don’t share our perspective, this doesn’t mean that they are not authentic followers of Christ.  They most likely have pure intentions for serving in the way that they do.  Nevertheless, we do need to take this issue seriously and continue to show the church that violence only begets violence and is contrary to God’s intention for his people.

Third, a bit of humility would do us Anabaptists a bit of good.  We don’t know how we will respond in the worst of situations (Hitler, Spouse attacked, etc.).  Our hope, is that we’ve spent so much time connecting to our heavenly Father that when a situation arises, that we will respond out of an outflow of how Christ is transforming our inner life.  The more we confront the violence within, the more the peaceful Spirit of Christ will inform our response to physical confrontations.
From Chrystal: Would you talk about the role of women in the Mennonite tradition? What types of ministry roles are women allowed to hold? Are there differences between women’s roles in the home versus in the church?

In all three of the major Anabaptist Mennonite denominations (Mennonite, Brethren in Christ, and Mennonite Brethren), women serve as pastors in various roles.  My tradition, the Mennonite Brethren, may be the most restrictive of the three groups.  I personally am an egalitarian, which is a view shared by every professor at our denominational seminary, but if memory serves me correctly… we still don’t ordain women.  We license them as pastors, but not ordain women yet.  Not sure why this is.  Nevertheless, the Mennonite movements tend to be fairly open to women in leadership, if not completely open.

Amish and some other Anabaptist groups do not share an egalitarian view.

flickering-pixelsFrom Brian: Can you discuss some of the Mennonite views of Technology. I’ve read Flickering Pixels by Shane Hipps, a former Mennonite pastor, and was impressed by his thoughts. As a technology geek, I’d like to more from a Mennonite perspective.

I think Shane Hipps is the best resource that I know about.  If any reader of this post can list others, please do!  I reviewed his first book called The Hidden Power of Electronic Culture here.  Shane is a wonderful reminder to the whole church that tech stuff can be great, but can also unintentionally alter the message we are communicating.  I can’t recommend his books enough!

From RM: Can you explain the main differences between the Amish and the Mennonites? I almost always package the two together… are they similar at all?  My extent of knowledge of Amish culture is a high school trip to Lancaster, PA and Beverly Lewis books. While I love the traditions and heritage, the philosophy and theology seem harsh. Are Mennonites the same way? 

As I already said above, I’ve never interacted with old order or Amish Mennonite groups.  I’d say that the only commonalities that exist are the list of values from question #2 and that we both emerged from the radical reformation.  Things like shunning and extreme exclusivity are unique to Amish and Hutterite groups for the most part.

Note: Check out Janet Oberholtzer’s response to this question in the comment section. Janet grew up Old Order Mennonite in the Lancaster, PA area and can shed some light on that particular sect. 

From Russell: What are some great Mennonite Authors and Influential members that have helped you in life?

There are some great books by Anabaptist authors!  Let me list a few of them:

From Rachel E.: What exactly is the Mennonite name game? 

Question: What do you call 3 naked Mennonites in a blizzard? Answer: Wiebe – Friesen – Fast (We Be Freezing Fast!)… this is an introduction to the game.  Basically, in the Mennonite world, names mean something.

For instance, my last name is Willems.  This is a well-known Mennonite name.  On the other side of the family, my last name is Penner… another Mennonite name.  Basically, whenever I find myself in the presence of a fellow Mennonite (especially those who know the history well), we find that we are connected some how.  Either we are related or this person knows someone who is related to me.

In the process of playing, you find out some interesting things.  For instance, I once met my second cousin for the first time at a non-Mennonite’s apartment in college.  We never knew we were related!  Or, there was the time I dated a girl with whom I shared a mutual second cousin.  Of course this mutual cousin was related to each of us through different sides of the family, so this girl and I were not directly blood relatives.  Then, there’s the fun stories about folks who get married and find out that they are second cousins after the fact.  Mennonites (until recent times) marry Mennonites.  The product… a family wreath instead of a family tree!  This is why the “Mennonite game” is so easy to play.  Luckily, I married outside so there is not a chance that my wife and I are related.

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Thanks to Kurt for taking so much time with these questions and providing us with so many additional resources. Check out the rest of the interview series: